Darry: Much Maligned

[Tensleep]

Good points there. That's one reason why I don't read a lot of Outsiders fiction anymore. It just doesn't make sense with the characterizations. Sure, insert a female character, but make it believable. Darry is not going to stick his neck out when he could potentially lose his brothers by doing so. He's not going to take Sue in and treat her like she's an abused princess when he can barely make enough to feed his brothers and random breakfast visitors.

I think the most realistic Darry's reaction to Mary Sue story was Nittanylizard's contribution to the June Rumble - Not Again. I think these Sue-ers should have to read it.

I read one once upon a time where Mrs. Curtis took in two girls and they ended up at the mall clothes shopping. Then there was one where Darry vowed to track down everyone who'd hurt her and paid for her to get on a bus to visit the folks she ran away from...and the list of out of character actions goes on.

Like I said, good points. Looks like there's good ground for a solid discussion.

[Nittanylizard]

From what I can figure, some of the fics that portray Darry as something more like a frantic parent than a young guy or a brother are written by authors to whom twenty is friggin' old, and/or who have maybe taken Ponyboy's word as fact. Same goes for reviewers - I've often seen reviews that claim, "Yeah, but Darry would never do that. He doesn't have time for girls." I'm sure there are elements to Darry's life that Ponyboy is not aware of; it's at least believable that there would be.

So if you don't take every description in the book at face value, you can start to develop motivations that match Darry's personality rather than just his situation. In other words, you could take any character and call them smart, dedicated, and focused, but they won't necessarily be Darry. And you could put any character in his situation, but if you change their characteristics, they won't be him. I think the problem comes in with matching the two up. It can be a lot easier to imagine a guy reacting like a parent when he's in that situation, than to work out how he would still behave like an older brother or an independent young man while in the position of caregiver.

[Maddiecake]

tensleep said:

I read one once upon a time where Mrs. Curtis took in two girls and they ended up at the mall clothes shopping.

^{I didn't write that two years ago or something...}

But really, I hate it when Darry is really sappy and calling Ponyboy things like "honey" and "baby" all the time. And how some people make him ready to break down in every chapter... I agree with what mars said. He has feelings, but his aren't exactly out there like his brothers' are.

[zevie]

I like seeing Darry humanized, but I also really like the idea that he deals with his situation by throwing himself headfirst into being a parent - acting it all the time the way he *thinks* a parent should be, and usually overdoing it, rather than thinking too much about his situation and feeling sorry for himself. But, this approach would definitely lead to the 20-year-old in him exploding out sometimes - like him smacking his annoying younger brother around. As for girls - if he doesn't have a girlfriend I think he's gotta be thinking about it. There's just no way around it if he's twenty, lol. Plus I can't see him being a popular boy in high school and suddenly going cold turkey, you know? I bet he would still get together with the girls he knew from high school when they were in town. They couldn't have ALL disappeared - not every girl would have gone off to uni at that time would they? He might not have time for a steady girlfriend, but I'd bet he'd have all sorts of girls chasing him if he's as good-looking as he's supposed to be (and being marriageble age and all, lol).

[Nittanylizard]

Also, we know he goes skiing sometimes with his friends. There must be some girls along sometimes, lol.

[Nittanylizard]

Hahaha, now it's making me think of The Brady Bunch, where the family is going to go skiing but Marcia isn't going because she's being punished, and they have that ramp set up in the back yard with hay or something on it. I have no idea why my brain has chosen to retain that bit of...uh...TV history, lol, but it just popped up out of nowhere.

[Keira]

So many points have been touched on, I can't think of anything at the moment to add to, except the short discussion about the girls from high school. What we do have to remember is that Darry is a greaser, whether or not he likes it. In high school he WAS popular, he was on the football team, and that's going to get him some due attention. But in the scheme of things - the majority of those girls are Socs and *will* have been pressured to attend college/university immediately following high school (although plenty of them could have gone somewhere near to Tulsa, if not in Tulsa itself). That aside, there's a dang good chance they'll be of the same opinion as Darry's old buddy Paul - and not want much to do with him anymore because the reality is that Darry IS a greaser.

And that's one of the reasons I find myself feeling more bad for Darry than not. I can't imagine that he's resentful he's now in charge of two teenage boys (although, I can't imagine he's 100% okay with it, at the same time), but the fact that a lot of his friends probably rejected him after high school, due to his social status, and the fact that he's so desperate to do away with his greaser label. The reality is, after high school you tend to stick with people/meet new people who are at the same place in life as you, whether that be through school, work, or elsewhere.

Darry "knows" he's headed somewhere in the future, however far distant that may be. He'll want to do better for himself in the way of female companionship (though not in a snooty way - you know what I mean. But he wouldn't want some Angela carbon-copy attached to him.) but his choice may be limited for a while until that severe prejudice against him, is out of the way. Does any of that make sense?

As for the snow - directly copied off of Wikipedia:

...snowfall ranges from an average of less than 4 inches (10 cm) near the Texas border to just over 20 inches (51 cm) on the border of Colorado in the panhandle...

[fosterchild]

I know we're talking fan fic here but even in real life, do you know ANYONE who would just take in random strangers off the street and give them a place to live and food and money to go shopping?! Even if they COULD afford it?? Come on!! The story is not so far off base of reality that common sense would tell you he wouldn't do that! lol

I do think a suitable and realistic match for Darry would be someone he meets matter-of-factly. A girl at the gorcery store, someone in the office of the company he works for, the daughter or sister of one of his co-workers. But it would also be someone who is independent. Someone who has some sort of work ethic who can hold their own and not be a cling-on to him and his life. Almost an equal. Someone he could respect.

That's my take on part of the situation.

[Des]

I can so relate to Darry as a character. Being older myself, I can understand the pressure he's under as guardian to his brothers, homemaker, and bill payer. I've had custody of my three brothers ages 17, 15 and 13 just since November of 2006 when our father had a paralyzing stroke, and it's alot of work.....emotionally, mentally, and physically, just to keep up with who does what, and where they are at any given time.

And the rebellion started almost immediately when they realized I was getting them since I'm the "fun big sister" and always messed around with them before, but now I have to be the parental "No, you're not gonna do that, or I'll bash your head in" sister, and they're far from thrilled with it.

Darry, my heart goes out to you for having to be ten different people all rolled into one without benefit of having Multiple Personality Disorder.

[Keira]

Wow, talk about an age gap, Des. Lol. Coming from where I do, though, I've seem that many a time. Many many MANY times. But yeah. Good for you though. It's heartwarming to hear about people willing to step up like that

Darry is one heck of a man. That's all I really say at this point. I'm 20, my younger brothers are 17 and 14, and I would have a serious mental breakdown if I had to care for them. Luckily that would fall on my eldest brothers shoulders, though. Lol. Jk.

[Des]

Yup. There's a big age gap. I just turned 35 in February, and my older brother is 37, but he already has a family to take care of, and I'm single and established in my career enough to take care of the boys (Brat Brigade, is what I call them---lovingly, of course), so I took them.

They are my half-brothers from my Pop's second marriage, but still my brothers all the same, and I love them to pieces even if they are making my hair go gray.

They just lost their mother (my stepmother) two years ago, so they've been through enough, and just need some attention and guidance.

-laughs-

Not that a middle aged biker chick is the best role-model for three teenage boys....but the court thought I was good enough, so if they end up pillaging the town and sacrificing goats on the square, they have no one to blame but themselves. LOL

[Keira]

Haha, sounds good enough to me! Good for you

Sounds like they've been through quite a lot. That's still awfully brave of you to take on three teenage boys. Hopefully they don't give you TOO much trouble. Lol.

[Nittanylizard]

Des - Wow. Just...wow. I'm 37 and already sweating about when my boys (almost 6 and almost 8) get to be teenagers, not to mention their sister (almost 2).

That's too bad about your brothers' mom, and then your dad on top of it. Is he recovering to any extent?

Does the oldest of your three younger brothers inadvertently help at all with the other two (i.e. get annoyed with them if they do something stupid)? My husband is the oldest of three, and he used to step in sometimes when his brother or sister (or both) were giving his mom a hard time. He was also the one his sister went to a couple of times when she was having problems, before she went to their parents.

[Des]

Damien helps out a lot with Mark and Danny...though you'd never get him to admit it.

He breaks them up when they start a knock down drag out since they can be pretty rough on each other (bloody noses, etc). And he'll reprimand them when they talk back to me, but he can be just as bad about it himself sometimes.

Having never had children of my own, I am totally clueless when it comes to the discipline, rules, and especially the teenage mind set. All I can do is treat them like I always have, and just add the "bash your head in" stuff in with it.

Pop is recovering slowly, but surely. He will never walk again, nor be able to speak clearly, but he's still got the majority of his intelligence intact. I take the boys to see him every weekend, and sometimes through the week, too, if one of them requests it.

I'm hoping that he will be able to come home instead of staying in a nursing facility, but the doc says there's not much hope of that, and Pop refuses to add himself to the "burden" along with my brothers even though I've told him it's no burden at all.

[Nittanylizard]

Backing up to the snow-in-Oklahoma portion of this thread -

From SE Hinton: "Up until a few years ago, skiing meant water skiing, as there isn't any place to snow ski in Oklahoma. Not to mention snow skiing costs a lot of money. You just need a fishing boat with a motor and a cheap pair of skies to water ski. Oklahoma is full of lakes."

Thank you again for clearing that up!

Liz