Being a Good Beta

[Keira]

I was reading through the What We Hate about reviews, etc... and I was thinking about how many stories suffer from the lack of a good beta, or even a beta period.

A good beta is someone who isn't afraid to point out the faults, but can offer up a solution to remedy the problem/s. Someone who isn't put off by the idea of having to bluntly point out what needs to happen to improve the quality of the story.

Any suggestions or personal experiences of beta'ing work? How about being on the receiving end? At what point did you first realize that the beta wasn't ripping apart your story to humiliate you, but to be a teacher and help you improve?

[printandpolish]

When I ask someone to beta a story for me, I'm looking for three main things:

1. General mechanics: Are there glaring typos, grammar and spelling errors? This can also include suggestions -- "What if you say this like that?" I have an original YA novel in which one of the minor characters switched names halfway through and I didn't notice.

2. Did you fall into a plot hole? Does the story make sense in the context of the world I created? Sometimes that's little stuff -- I once had a character just randomly appear in a scene. I hadn't mentioned her coming into the room nor had anyone acknowledged her, and suddenly she was talking. Sometimes it's bigger, though -- I mean, if suddenly Dallas knocks over a liquor store to get money to put up a gravestone for the Curtis parents, and no one has ever mentioned it's an issue they don't have one, including Dally, that's a problem.

3. Is everyone in character, at least for this story? (ie, Ponyboy after the fire where Johnny lived, I think, would be a little different than the Pony where Johnny died.)

These are also the things I try to point out when I beta for someone else.

[zevie]

I've never been or had a beta... In fact, aside from this section of the forum, I wasn't exactly sure what it entails, except being a second opinion sort of. The closest to this I've had was a co-authored fic I did long ago...but there were minimal criticisms. I went back to the fic later, and I could not BELIEVE how many awful things we let slide. Likewise, looking at old fics of mine...it's really very embarrassing sometimes. Heck, even chapters from last month can be embarrassing.

So, I'm wondering... A lot of you are professional and seasoned writers or editors and I am a total amateur, but personally, I've found it hard to find a beta (not that I even knew where to look). Would it be worthwhile to have someone like me (inexperienced, but enthusiastic!) beta-ing at all? (And please tell me "no" if that is the truth, or I may end up messing someone's work up. I can always review instead! )

[Tensleep]

I've never formally Beta'd formally, but I am always itching to fix the things I read. I think anyone who asked me to Beta would go insane, but hey.

As for having Beta's...Well, my old Beta did a lot more talking to reviewers than anything else - the things we do for family... - and I am currently without one, so I often go back and read over old posts and use the export feature on ff.net for editing. I have had Keira read over things for grammar and punctuation and the like, but I fear I may have driven her crazy with my random capitalization and my love of the word 'said'. I'm getting much better, though. I like to think that with each edit I learn something new.

zevie said:

Would it be worthwhile to have someone like me (inexperienced, but enthusiastic!) beta-ing at all? quote]

Zevie, I think you would do well. Here's a test: Look at the reviews you've recieved. Did you listen and take those suggestions to heart? If you were able to do that in your own writing, work on your own mistakes, you can help others who make the same ones because you know what to look for. From what I have read on this forum, you have awesome suggestions and I think a lot of people would love to have you on board. Just don't be afraid to speak your mind on what you're asked to Beta.

See ya in the funny papers!!!

Tens

[Keira]

You need to be able to trust a beta. Sure, a beta can be a friend of yours, but will they always tell you what you need to hear? More often than not, a friend will just gush and tell you how great it is. I often do that, but when I know something is being sent to me for the purpose of being beta'd then I really take a good look at it and get down into the nitty-gritty of it.

It's not unusual to go through more than one beta either. Some beta's have strengths that others don't. I, personally have a good eye for grammar, spelling, punctuation, and flow. Someone else may have a good eye for continuity. Etc...

I haven't beta'd anything for a while, though I'm usually open to it.

[zevie]

Schveet, thanks Tens.

So, here's another question, haha: What about the issue of grammar versus style? I know that technically in third-person you should follow the grammar rules (as opposed to first person, or dialogue where it's more open right?)...but, occasionally, it feels really good to stylistically throw in an "ain't" or "don't know nothin'" or something. (I personally have a love affair going with sentence fragments. And starting sentences with a conjunction. ) When you're beta-ing, where do you draw the line? Do you try and catch everything, just in case?

[printandpolish]

zevie said:

Schveet, thanks Tens.

So, here's another question, haha: What about the issue of grammar versus style? I know that technically in third-person you should follow the grammar rules (as opposed to first person, or dialogue where it's more open right?)...but, occasionally, it feels really good to stylistically throw in an "ain't" or "don't know nothin'" or something. (I personally have a love affair going with sentence fragments. And starting sentences with a conjunction. ) When you're beta-ing, where do you draw the line? Do you try and catch everything, just in case?

As a beta, I throw everything in. As the author -- if I made the mistake on purpose, for a reason, it stays. If not, I correct it.

I don't think you need to be published or a writer by trade or any of that to be a good beta. You just have to know what you like and be honest and have a bit of a grasp of the language. And not to be mean, but no one will ask you if your work is full of errors. (I don't mean any of *you* in particular, just the generic you.)

I think betas are great for catching canonical mistakes, too. I'm working on a multi-chapter fic in the Numb3rs world, and I can't tell you how many times I've e-mailed my beta to say, "This happened in X episode, right?" It's not the same here, because we can all refer to the book, but it's always helpful to have another set of eyes.

[zevie]

Hmm...looks like I may have to review some grammar rules first.

So, a couple more questions, heh:

1) For those of you who are betas, does it take up all of your writing time? How much of your time generally do you end up devoting to beta-ing? Is it typically a one story per beta thing?

2) Generally grammar is understandable, but this one is spinning my head and I couldn't find the answer in the Strunk... When it's singular possesive it's apostrophe s (like Dallas's) right? Except for Jesus or something. When it's plural possesive it's just an apostrophe, like boys' (thanks for that Artemis)...so does that mean that when referring to the place where Darry, Soda and Pony live it's the Curtises' house? Or Curtises's...and is that pronounced "Curtiseses"? Or is it just Curtis'? Or, I guess, Curtis's...HELP. (English is a GREAT language.) I don't know why, but I just can't get this one.

[zevie]

marsonfire said:

Heh, I'm so guilty of sentence fragments. When I write Tim he's ALL sentence fragments and he has no idea what a conjunction is lol. I blame it on him playing things close to the chest and not wasting words lol.

By the way, YEAH...Tim definitely feels like a fragment guy. Right to the point, no sissy wordsmithing for him

[printandpolish]

The misplaced apostrophe is my grammatical pet peeve.

zevie said:

Hmm...looks like I may have to review some grammar rules first.

So, a couple more questions, heh:

1) For those of you who are betas, does it take up all of your writing time? How much of your time generally do you end up devoting to beta-ing? Is it typically a one story per beta thing?

2) Generally grammar is understandable, but this one is spinning my head and I couldn't find the answer in the Strunk... When it's singular possesive it's apostrophe s (like Dallas's) right? Except for Jesus or something. When it's plural possesive it's just an apostrophe, like boys' (thanks for that Artemis)...so does that mean that when referring to the place where Darry, Soda and Pony live it's the Curtises' house? Or Curtises's...and is that pronounced "Curtiseses"? Or is it just Curtis'? Or, I guess, Curtis's...HELP. (English is a GREAT language.) I don't know why, but I just can't get this one.

I do believe that the 's is correct either way -- so it can be Thomas' room or Thomas's room. (This is my son's name and yes, I am a geek, I looked it up before sending a note to his teacher.) And X follows that same rule -- which, as a Boston Red Sox fan, is important for me to know LOL.

As for as the other:

My brother's room -- Pony's room
My brothers' room -- Pony and Soda's room
The Curtises - all of them (but honestly, I usually use the Curtis family because I think it sounds less awkward.)
The Curtises' house

I second the rec. for Strunk and White. Fabulous book -- in journalism, it's our Bible.

[Rock]

zevie said:

Hmm...looks like I may have to review some grammar rules first.

So, a couple more questions, heh:

1) For those of you who are betas, does it take up all of your writing time? How much of your time generally do you end up devoting to beta-ing? Is it typically a one story per beta thing?

Zevie:

I haven't done much beta-ing, but I can tell you this. You can always turn it down. It does take time, and it does take thought. I always evaluate my schedule before I add anything (even helping out Keira or another friend with a story). Especially as a Beta, you do not want it to get pushed aside.

As for your second question, I cant answer anything about grammar. Thank goodness for those around me who keep my gramme somewhat in line.

Good luck!

Rock

[Keira]

Keep your "gramme" in line

Jk. Lol. Good to see you posting!

[Tensleep]

Hey now, be nice. I miss letters all the time. Talking to me on MSN is like speaking another language. We've pattanted such words as "swesome" and ...well, anything ending in 'ing' I will manage to type as 'ign'. Not to mention I practially taught myself how to type and spell and use the dang'd thing all in the same six months...

But, I meant to post about something Zevie said, not something I do!

How much time does a Beta lose from their writing...

Well, take my biggest mistake for example. I decided I was bored with Keira working all the time at KFC, Ryker being an ocean away and Rock...man, I think that was the height of the Steve phase. Anyways, in a moment of poor decision I agreed to Beta for a younger writer than myself who was new to the section.

Never, ever, ever, ever, ever again.

I became the co-author. I had to help her set up a plot and characters and go over everything. She basically sent me lines of code that were somehow words to her that I had to pour through and space and spell correctly. Then I was formatting and editing and correcting grammar and...man I just got tired of doing all the work. Hollywood PA's had nothing on me during that summer....
What was worse was she sent me something new every few days. I would just finish a chapter and there was another in my mailbox. I had no time for myself to write. I was in hell. So I finally wrote her, suggested some authors I knew would be more patient and washed my hands of the whole thing.

So I think the only answer is it depends on:

a) the writing ability of your author. If they write like the author I described, you may be better off seeking out soemone else just for your sanity.

b) your skills. If you feel they are too advanced or vice versa for your level of editing, then you need to find a better fit.

c) your level of patience and dedication. I lost my patience and I never had much dedication. It made for a bad job all around.

d) your enjoyment - this was a big issue for me. I wasn't interested and it took longer every time.

My advice is don't pick a friend, pick a writer you can relate to. Sure make friends with them, but always remember you are rendering a service. If you can't click with the person, move on while you still can and make another go at it before you lose all interest.

Well, that's my ramble on the subject.

See ya in the funny papers!!!

Tens

[Keira]

I remember that... Man, that seems like a lifetime ago now.

I had the exact opposite experience once. I was writing a story (in another fandom) when I was about 14 and I was having my friend Beta it. Instead of checking that things were staying in line, giving me suggestions, etc.... she complete rewrote the whole thing. I didn't mind at the time, because I looked up to her for her writing skills, but looking back on it, it makes me think, "Wait a sec... Yes, it WAS better when she played with it... but then it wasn't my story anymore. It was hers." But, like I said, at the time I didn't mind. Liked it in fact.

I recently made friends with an author of an HP fanfic - one of the biggest/most popular/best written in the fandom - and she asked me to consider being one of her new betas, since two of them recently dropped out of the picture for various reasons. My heart stopped, and I graciously, gratefully accepted her offer - and it was all on the condition that our styles matched and she liked what input I had. With this new assignment, I have to constantly remind myself that she doesn't HAVE to use me as a beta, but I'm determined to prove myself, because it's one of those opportunities you can't pass up. None of that I-don't-want-to-offend-her junk, or gushing over her story, or merely correcting grammar and then sending it back to her.

No, beta'ing is something that ought to be taken seriously, and if you can't handle that responsibility, than perhaps the position isn't right for you. Me, for example - I write, but I've also realized that I like reading and the editting process somewhat more than writing. I love writing, don't get me wrong, but there's something gratifying about helping someone else's story becoming even better. A beta has to be headstrong. Think of it as being like the producer that has to tell Bono that his recording session sucked and he has to redo the song. NOT an easy job, but someone has to do it, right?

[Tensleep]

Bono? You gotta be kidding me. I could tell that guy off in an instant. Now, Diamond David Lee or Lars Ulrich are completely different stories...