If Mrs. Curtis was like Darry...

[Nittanylizard]

Because there is something I've thought about writing a fic about, but will never have the time, I'm going to pose it as a question here instead .

Ponyboy describes Darry as not understanding anything that isn't plain hard fact, and that he uses his head. Because he notes that Darry looks like their dad, but they were opposites, I always pictured their mom being more like Darry (is that somewhere in the book, and I've just retained it subconsciously without realizing it?).

SO, imagining their mom similar to Darry, using her head and keeping on top of things, I had this idea that maybe she had started an insurance policy without the dad knowing, or was socking some cash aside and not telling anybody. Maybe, if the dad was like Soda, he didn't look ahead too well and wanted to live for the moment, but she had the forethought to make sure her and the boys were taken care of in case anything happened to the dad.

Figuring the parents were killed in January, and the book happened in September, how about if one day in December they got a notice in the mail to pay the insurance premium for the next year? They find out that Mom had started this policy, and now they've got some money.

What do you imagine changing for them? How would you picture their lives being different if, by some chance, the Curtis brothers suddenly found that they had a large sum of money in their possession? Because if she were the kind of smart that Darry is, I could imagine her squeezing money out of wherever she could to get the largest possible policy.

[zevie]

Wow, what an amazing, original what-if. You should write that up Liz, I know I'm not the only one who'd love to see that!

[BlindedxxFalcon]

Agreed! I'd love to read it. When, you have time, though. No pushing.

*5 mins later*

Well what are you waiting for?

Haha, just kidding! Seriously, though. Even if it's just a one-shot.

[Keira]

I like the idea, Liz

My first question would be -- how much money would have been set aside, or rather given to them from the insurance company? We'll need to do some research into the average policy in the mid-to-late '60's, I'm thinking.

What they would do, though... First thing that came to mind -- Darry would be able to pay off all those obnxious bills and go to college and get the education he's always dreamt of. Or at least, he could start to go to college, and hopefully be able to continue paying for their every day expenses, as well as save for his next tuition for the follow semester -- especially since he'd HAVE to also qualify for a pellgrant of sorts.

I could see them moving into an apartment, too. Not to get away from the memories held at the house, but too help them save just that much more money. Imagine it -- if they had fewer bills, a yearly pellgrant for Darry's tuition (I'm willing to bet his scholarship will be null at this point in time), and possibly a few thousand dollars in savings, to help keep their heads above water for the next four years... they COULD do it. I've definitely seen worse before. Soda MIGHT even be able to save a little of his money too... though, I'm sure he'd still want to help with expenses.

Did you have any specifics you had in mind, Liz? I'm liking the idea of this thing -- even if it'll never be written, it'd be fun to build on the plotline.

[fosterchild]

Good topic, Liz!

I think it would depend on how much the policy was for in 1965/66....How many thousands of dollars would it be?

I imagine, since Darry would be the head of household and in charge of the money for the most part, he would likely put away a big chunk of it for emergencies. He's level-headed like that. I can't see him being too frivolous with it or allowing the boys to be. Although, I can see the boys talking him into doing something a little frivolous....like maybe getting a new truck or something.

If the money were substantial, Darry probably would go back to school at least part time.

[hahukumkonn]

You know, it makes me wonder what happened to any life insurance policy that Darry Sr's employer might have provided for the Curtises (not the Wal-Mart secretly-insure-your-worker but a legitimate one provided through the company's group benefits plan, assuming they had anything like that in the 1960s); did it go to paying the mortgage so Darry would own the place free and clear, or what?

I'm not so sure Darry was different from his dad, I recall Ponyboy writing that Darry Sr often said Darry Jr was "a chip off the old block". But if that was physique or personality I'm not sure.

[zickachik73]

So, I think this is a great idea, but there are some things that would require EXTENSIVE artistic license: First, Mrs. Curtis may have wanted to put money aside, but it would seem that there wouldn't have been much to do put away. Chances are, because of the time period and social class, that she didn't work outside the home, so it's safe to assume that this is a one income family. Also, because of his nature, it's likely that Darrel Sr. probably didn't have an outstanding job - perhaps something in the oil industry since that was big in Tulsa in the 60's, in a labor capacity, or maybe a factory job. Jobs like this, especially in areas where unemployed men are a dime a dozen, don't offer much in the way of compensation, and even less by way of benefits. So, if you couple the fact that Darrel Sr. wouldn't have made that much to begin with (also notable because of where he resides - he apparently wanted the best for his kids, but the best he could offer was on the Greaser side of town) and the fact that what he made is all they made, the likelihood of an insurance policy is very slim.

Beyond that, if there was one, it's important to remember that Darry had to go to court to keep the boys under his roof and they would have examined EVERY SINGLE PART of his financial records and abilities, including his parents' estate. Lawyers, judges, social workers - they all would have torn his personal and financial life to bits to be sure he was a capable guardian because of the sensitivity of the situation.

[Rock]

Wow, very interesting thought. Now, my head isnt really present right now, but maybe my fingers can make up for it.

I think its a good point to think about the situation they were in. Sometimes no matter how much you would like to save up, pay ofr insurance, or pay off debt there is just no way to pay the essentials as well. But, this aside, the idea is way cool. With the right mind set, I can see them having a small amount. I dont personally think that it could be anyhting close to what they would need for Darry to attend school, but possibly enough to at least help pay off funeral bills (we all know those arent cheap). If Darry had any left over, I think he would put it away for a rainy day. He's level headed enough to know that there may well be one, and he would want to be prepared for that.

As far as Darry being like his mother in personality, I have always seen it that way, but thats just me. It's important to remember that Darry probably has a lot of characteristics of his father as well. I think that you could interperet the book either way, but all kids will be like their parents. In my family, we all have things that are like both of our parents, and I really couldnt say who was more like who. It could be the case for the Curtis family as well.

okay, I dont really know how much of this makes sense, so I think Im going to bed now. Have fun interpretting my post. Sorry if its incomprehensible!

Tchuess for now!

Rock

[Nittanylizard]

Wow, so many good thoughts coming out of this! I'm going to try and clarify what I had in mind, and stress that any assumptions that I'm making about the Curtis parents are not canon, but my interpretation for this particular situation. I used the "But they only looked alike - my father was never rough with anyone without meaning to be" sentence, in part, to develop my view of the parents for THIS story idea.

Ponyboy says that Darry works two jobs to be able to pay the bills, so we know it's a struggle for them. So my thought was, what if they came to have enough that he didn't need two jobs? Like Rock said, enough to pay off the funerals, or enough to put away as a buffer? If Darry were less stressed about money, would he and Ponyboy get along better (the way the did before Mom and Dad died)?

Back in the 50's, it was common for life insurance salesmen to travel door-to-door selling policies. These didn't have to be large policies, and many people bought them with the intention of paying for their own funerals (my grandmother has two policies that she's had for years, for exactly this reason). They didn't have to cost a lot; I'm not talking about $500,000 policies. But with my view of Mrs. Curtis, I could imagine her realizing that if anything were to happen to her husband, she would be in big trouble, with three little boys to take care of. So maybe she makes a few bucks watching somebody else's kids, or cleaning some houses, whatever. Just enough to pay the premium for a policy that will help her make ends meet if her husband gets killed (oh, and I had assumed he was involved in farming, as Ponyboy talks about dad driving the pickup out early to feed the cattle like he used to).

Regardless of how little money people had, it seems like the closer you get to the depression-era, or even earlier than that, the better the poorest people knew how to make ends meet, and for many of them, it was important to make sure that their kids had something if anything happened to them. There might not have been enough money for new clothes, three pairs of shoes, jewelry, etc., but even when you were scraping, there was often enough for some type of insurance. Again, this isn't like you would think of a medical insurance policy today, that costs $200 a month. The parents were young and, assumably, in good health, so a life insurance policy that paid out enough to pay funerals and help Mom keep things afloat (especially if there really isn't any other family to help out) would not have cost them an arm and a leg. Even today it wouldn't, under those conditions. My grandmom had six kids in a Philadelphia suburb, they ate all the low-end type things (my mom now hates canned potatoes ), etc., but she always had at least one insurance policy that would pay out $2,000-$5,000.

One of the things that implanted this concept in my mind, other than my own grandparents and their families, who all had several children and were far from rich, is the book, "A Tree Grows in Brooklyn". These people were dirt poor, with an alcoholic dad and a mom who supported them by cleaning apartment buildings. But she was smart, and she knew where to prioritize in taking care of her family; so no matter how little they had, she always managed to scrape up an extra penny here, another nickel there, and she bought them an insurance policy. She also had a can nailed to the floor of a bedroom closet, and every little bit of extra went into it. If anybody should have had nothing left over, you would think it would have been these people.

It's possible that I'm just not seeing the Curtis family as quite as poor as some other readers do, especially before the parents died. Maybe they're doing worse now because maybe their mom was doing odd jobs here and there, or even regularly working part time since all her kids are in school all day. Maybe Dad even had a couple of jobs - the farm in the morning and the early part of the day, and something else part-time later in the afternoon or evening. Not enough total to make them even middle-class, but enough to get what they needed and have a little bit extra. Now that it's all up to Darry, it's hard to keep up, on top of the fact that he had to pay for two funerals.

Tack onto all this that their mom had, what, 20+ years experience in keeping costs down. It's very much a learned thing, and it can take a while to figure out where to squeeze that extra money from. Maybe she had a garden and canned lots of food, cutting down on the grocery bills. That's what my dad's great-aunt did, and she lived for many years quite comfortably on little more than social security. She might have fallen into the range of "poor" by financial standards, but you wouldn't have know it if you didn't...know it, haha. She always had something left over, because she knew how to be smart with her money.

So, where I'm going with all this, is that if you look at the way the poorer people often handled their money 40-80 years ago, rather than how they might today, I think it's entirely possible that Mrs. Curtis could have had an insurance policy that their children would not have know about until sometime after their death. And if Dad had one that they knew about which actually did cover funeral expenses, they might have not thought to look for one that Mom had purchased. But maybe she didn't feel like that one was enough, and Dad didn't agree or thought she was being overly cautious, so she bought a second one without him knowing.

As far as the bank or state figuring it out, insurance companies are independent entities; you go to them when you need your policy to pay out, they don't come to you, and they don't answer to the bank or to the state. It's a private thing, and if the paper policy itself was kept somewhere that the boys didn't think to look (especially not knowing that one existed, and considering that she would have been hiding it from Dad in my particular scenario), the bank and the state would never have know about it. When my grandpop died, my grandmom had to dig all over the house trying to find a policy that she was pretty sure he had bought.

So if I haven't completely confused the issue, hahaha, that's what I had in mind when I suggested this scenario. (and yes, this is the kind of backstory I hash through when I come up with an idea for a story ;D)

[zevie]

That's quite an impressive backstory! The one thing that would have made me sceptical was the court thing, but you explained that with the independentness of the companies.

Also, from what I've read (novels) of that time period, it wouldn't be that uncommon for women to be working - at a grocery store, or at a diner (wasn't Two-Bit's mom a barmaid?) or maybe a secretarial job? If her kids are grown up (was Pony 13 when they died?) then she probably had a lot more time on her hands - maybe she worked through the church or something, organizing things, etc. I don't know if that makes any money, but anyway, my rambly point is that I think it's possible for her to have scraped up some money of her own for the poicy.

[Keira]

Wow, Liz, you really did your research, didn't you? I always meant to read A Tree Grows in Brooklyn, but I think it was on our school's banned list so I was unable to get it through there. I think. As you were talking about it, it reminded me of Angela's Ashes -- which I only ever read about 2/3 of (I didn't have the time to recheck it out through the school, so I dropped it in the library return slot, and I never got around to checking it back out, but it is GOOD) -- except the exact opposite. It's about a real family from Ireland, who's dead beat dad (more or less) always drank away their money, and he and his four younger brothers always went hungry and a sister died -- I think due to being unable to receive proper medical attention. I'm probably remembering that wrong, but I think I got it right.

Anyway, I never did know that about the insurance policies back then. Parts sounded familiar, but most of it was new to me, which was fun to read about. I also like the idea of of Mrs. Curtis having a garden - that's not at all unusual, even by today's standards.

I also agree that she most likely would have held a job - and even if she didn't - in this version she could, and it too wouldn't be unusual. I could see her having been a receptionist for a small company, or even for one of those larger companies that required many women ready to answer the phones. She probably would have been doing that for a few years too, considering Pony's age when they passed.

I'm really taking a liking to this story idea

[Tensleep]

Great idea, Liz. I actually have a one shot going on about Darry finding a can of cash in the basement, so I have something to contribute to this thread!

I always thought of the Curtis parents being like my grandparents - in habits, not in reality since I'm not that deluded. They were dirt poor, single income people, balancing debts, mortgage payments and the like. I see the Curtis' being like this, especially if Darry and Soda both have to work so hard to make ends meet after they're gone. It was a careful balancing act, one that would not be easy to step into.

I could see Mrs. Curtis being a lot like my grandfather. He budgeted the monthly expenses, made sure all the bills got paid, made the balances and that kind of stuff. He balanced payments so their debt didn't get out of hand, made off to the side business deals and so forth. Basically, anything that could be scrimped and saved to get the family through the month was his doing.

Mr Curtis was probably more like my grandmother. She wasn't that smart with money, but she meant well and knew enough to leave it to my grandpa. They always had a house full of kids and their neighbor's kids and the like. So there were always between one and nine of their own kids hanging around and that made making ends meet hard, especially with 6 of them being growing boys.

So Grandpa was a coupon person. He worked two jobs, sometimes three, bought insurance policies and their grave plots way back when they were cheap and easy to pay off since "Uncle" Sal was running the mortuary up on 21st. That kind of careful spending for a 'what if' since he could potentially leave 9 children fatherless and he was the sole income of the family until my Dad started working at age 11 delivering newspapers. That and he got dumped in an orphanage for a while, so he definitely wanted to make sure his kids were taken care of.

He also went through the Great Depression, as the Curtis parents would have, so nothing was ever wasted. He even ate his apple cores and anything burnt. But he also didn't trust banks since they all crashed on Black Friday and everyone lost their money. So he kept a secret stash of any spare cash. He hid it in coffee cans in the basement and never told my Gramma about it since it would get spent faster than you could blink - not on frivolous things, but it was meant to be a rainy day stash in case things got worse and pawning off things was not going to cut it.

I could see Mrs. Curtis doing something similar. Putting money away in a coffee can in the basement, scrimping by on coupons, trading preserves for eggs, taking small cleaning jobs, keeping a garden, keeping the family fed from the preserves in the basement when times got tough, sewing her own things, making the boy's clothing last as long as possible and things like that. I could even see her putting away little insurance policies.

Liz makes a point. Unless someone went back into their accounts from when she took out the policy and noticed the money was missing or there were receipts, then there wouldn't be anyway the state would know about something like that because they were independent companies who made you come to them. That being said, I doubt she would have taken money from an account, but instead from that coffee can in the basement. As for Mr. Curtis not knowing, it was probably for his own good, not because she didn't trust him or something. That money could have been their only nest egg for retirement, since it's doubtful Mr. Curtis would have been making enough to put money away or would be getting a pension. And it would have been tempting to give it to Darry for his education.

Anyways, I kind of went way off topic for a bit.

If the boys found out about this money, Darry would be in charge of it and I could see him treating it like his mother did. It would be used for practical things. Paying any debts, getting the mortgage out of the way, putting some away for Pony's education, putting some away for Sodapop and the like. As much as I could see him using it to go back to school, I could see him thinking that boat had passed and simply putting the money away for a rainy day.
Sure, Soda and Pony would talk him into buying something they really didn't need - like a color TV or a new couch or something, but that would be about it. He would appreciate how tight things can get in the money department and that the policy won't last forever, so putting as much of it away would be his priority.

Anyways, I think I may have said a lot, so I'll leave it there.

[anotherillusion]

I like this idea and I really hope you give it a go. It would be interesting to see how people interpret Darry acting with a little extra money and the effect it would have on their lives as a whole.
Another Illusion