Narrative Tone: Ponyboy

[latch22]

I never really questioned Ponyboy's character, oddly enough, but it just occurred to me that, though it was made clear that Ponyboy was very much capable of sophisticated and abstract thought, the articulation in the book was simple and straightforward, if somewhat eloquent at times. I think that that aspect of both his character and his speech are generally overlooked, because we, as readers, do know how deep his thoughts go. We've been privy to that. I think that the wording is simple because many of the concepts are ineffable no matter how you spin them. (To a degree, I think a bit of the same can be said for Johnny.)

... What say you?

[Tensleep]

I'm not quite sure how I want to answer this. Lots going on in my head, but not so much when it comes to the digits.

I think that you have a point. It was simple, but I don't think it was because the concepts were ineffable (good word - I had to look that one up). No, I think it was the opposite. He didn't have to make the wording complicated. Aside from Sandy being pregnant even though no one really came out and said it, everything was pretty well laid out and covered by Ponyboy's internal monologue.
Another reason for simple; in the end of the book he thought that more people would be going through what he and Johnny and Dallas were. When you look at Johnny and Dallas, you really wouldn't want to complicate anything you'd want them to read. It seemed like things were kept simple to make it more universal.

I dunno, does this make any sense? Ugg, I need sleep...

See ya in the funny papers!!!

Tens

[latch22]

I actually agree with that.

Mostly, I just think that people tend to forget that, yes, he was intelligent, and yes, he was intellectual, but that was how he spoke and thought--in a straightforward manner, simple. I also agree that there was no need to complicate things, and that has a lot to do with it. (A perk for reading first person--a certain downside to writing it. Lol.) I mean, he outright *says* that he was never one for English.

(My brain is totally clogged at the moment. Let's see if I can have one of those bursts of astounding clarity, anyway.) Most of the concepts were simple, yes. There was a rivalry. There was friendship and loyalty. There was loss.

(Curse the different state of mind I was in last night. Darn it. [And darn the asterisks, too, while we're at it.])

I didn't mean the situations. It was a very straightforward (how many times have I used that word so far? I should stop) written book, in that regard.

But I do think that there were underlying things that were hinted at, but the conclusions were of such a level that even Pony could not really reach them (which, I suppose, leaves them subject to interpretation).

Yeah, sorry I'm adding to the confusion. My brain just quit on me. It's a quitter. It was working before, and I probably could have explained it somehow, but now... Yeah, **** quitter of a brain of mine. (I cheated. I actually typed those asterisks myself. Lol.)

So mostly, I just wanted to raise the point that I think Pony's POV is written with language that's too polished. He was intelligent. We know that. But it doesn't ring true to the book, just because he gets into education more than the gang.

Cheers!

[latch22]

I noticed that, mars. I always found it interesting how it was conversational. Another thing that made the story and characters seem so real was that he was speaking as if he expected you to know a lot of this already, you know. A mention of this here; a glimpse of that there. Nothing in full, all of it at random, culminating to create some fantastic characters that you learn about along the way, just as you really would about someone, like picking up on their traits or habits or quirks.

It wasn't stream-of-consciousness, but it really was just his thoughts, I think. A situation however he perceived it. And I don't doubt his possible eloquence, which we did see evidence of--I just don't think that it's what came natural.

But I tend to read too much into thing sometimes, so, oh, well.

Cheers!

[zevie]

Hmm...this line of conversation seems a little too deep for me, but I'll toss in my two cents anyway.

He says at one point that he has a lousy vocabulary, even if he was educated (at the rumble). But, he catches himself, so, I think Pony probably knows "better" but he speaks and writes with the language that he uses to communicate with his buddies - and yeah, like mars said, makes us feel like one of them this way. I like that he doesn't use flowery prose - it sucks you into his world and the characters.

So...the short and short of it is, I agree - I like him simple, but not dumbed down either. I usually think of Pony as being extremely observant and intuitive - but not quite possessing the wisdom at fourteen to put two and two together and come up with four all the time.

[Keira]

I'm not 100% sure where this thread is going, however, I too would like to add in my thoughts.

I think Ponyboy's character is one of the most well balanced in modern literature. And refreshingly realistic. How many of us authors and readers think in slang? How many of us have a good vocab but don't care to show off our intellectual side and use it constantly? Now divide us up into groups of girls and guys, and take into consideration that a lot of "cool" boys aren't as willing to let down their mask, even around close friends.

Ponyboy is a tuff guy in a tough neighborhood, and though he feels it's okay to speak freely with Soda and Johnny, he puts on his greaser facade quite well when needed.

Because of this, in my opinion, Ponyboy is the easiest of our greasers to write. We can show off our vocab (to an extent) with his thoughts, but can use 60's slang in dialogue. It's a good balance and I don't feel like I'm needed to comb through things with such a fine comb, because it's okay to let him slip something intelligent, or whatever.

And, at the same time, this is one of the things that hinders my writing as well. Because it's easy for me to flip flop back and forth between Pony's pleasant simpleness, it gets to me when I have to write a character who is solely strict, or soley depressed, or soley brainy and nerdy.

Fanfiction-wise, Pony is by far the funnest and easiest to write for me.

[Keira]

Haha that's funny, Mars. I guess that's the beauty of authors. What one can't write another one can. Imagine if we all found it the easiest, and most pleasing, to write little Ponyboy's running around in every situation imaginable. Talk about a lack of originality. I mean, I love Pony, but one is enough. Lucky Susie Hinton for getting dibs on him first

[Shadow]

I have to agree with Zevie. This line of conversation is rather deep, but I have two bits.

I think that Ponyboy was an easy to identify with character. In comparison to the other characters, I think he most likely would have been the easiest to tell the story through. I couldn't imagine someone with a personality like Darry's trying to tell this story without it feeling like it was dragging a bit. Two-Bit would be telling this off the wall tale and Dallas...well, I doubt that one would have been popular. We like reading about the bad boy, but we need to be able to take a step back and see how everyone else feels.

If that makes any form of sense.

[samanthamae]

Hey, a random thought just occurred to my mind: Do you think Ponyboy might exaggerate a little bit? I don't know why I thought that, but it's just the way he describes Darry as being really old, Soda as being unbelievably handsome...I don't know. I think it's a weird observation, and it's really hard to explain without it sounding completely stupid, but I'm just wondering.

Like, sometimes at school I'd tell a story and exaggerate it a little without even noticing.

What do you guys think?

[latch22]

He does tend to see things in a black and white perspective.

[fosterchild]

zevie said:

Hmm...this line of conversation seems a little too deep for me, but I'll toss in my two cents anyway.

He says at one point that he has a lousy vocabulary, even if he was educated (at the rumble). But, he catches himself, so, I think Pony probably knows "better" but he speaks and writes with the language that he uses to communicate with his buddies - and yeah, like mars said, makes us feel like one of them this way. I like that he doesn't use flowery prose - it sucks you into his world and the characters.

So...the short and short of it is, I agree - I like him simple, but not dumbed down either. I usually think of Pony as being extremely observant and intuitive - but not quite possessing the wisdom at fourteen to put two and two together and come up with four all the time.

Are we the same person?!!!! I was thinking the EXACT same thing (in my own words, of course) while reading this thread ESPECIALLY the 'at fourteen' part...ahh ESP!

[zevie]

Lol, who knows, maybe we are? Doo, doo, doo, doo...

[fosterchild]

hahahaha ;D