Writing Dallas

[zevie]

I don't think Dallas needs a girl exactly...but I think he needs to be needed a little bit. He wants to be wanted without having to open himself up and reciprocate. I think this shows up a little bit in his relationship with Johnny. Johnny worships Dallas; I think it could be one of the few things that make him feels like he's not worthless, and he loves Johnny for that.

I think with Sylvia it could be a bunch of things. It could be a sex thing. It could be that she's the only girl who's tough enough to get some respect out of him... I don't know. She could be just something familiar in his life, something easy and reassuring when he has to harden himself against the rest of his life. The idea I'm leaning towards right now (it being very late, and me being a little emo right now) is that he can’t let her go, because that would mean that someone with so much less of a status to him – not tough, not been in jail, a girl – would have openly declared that they didn’t need him. Sylvia’s been with Dallas, and basically felt all that he’s had to offer. Her running out on him while he’s in jail is a slap in the face… So, I think he goes back to her to try and prove that he can conquer her. Sort of, prove that someone who should be so much less than him in his world doesn’t think that he’s worthless.

That’s enough emo for tonight. In lighter times I usually lean towards Sylvia being a little older than Dallas and more sexually experienced (which means she’d let him think HE was), and him being a boy with fully functioning hormones.

My interpreting Dally tends to be like a game of pin-the-tail wearing a blindfold as thick as the Great Wall…this might not ring true with anyone but me at four in the morning.

[Nittanylizard]

And that, artemis rex, is why you are simply the master of writing Dallas Winston . Great observation, and very well put.

Liz

[zevie]

I think my biggest issue (well, one of them) with writing Dally is his sense of humour. First of all...does he even have much of one? He doesn't do much joking around in the book that I can remember (except for that one thing with Ponyboy, and his interaction with Cherry). I have some thoughts on this, but, like all my Dally thoughts, they tend to be a little scrambled, and without a sense of humour writing in Dallas' POV gets kind of depressing. Is that just how it is?

[Keira]

Quite frankly, my biggest issue with writing Dallas is... writing her him period. Don't get me wrong, I love Dallas. He's one of the most complicated, misunderstood, complex, devil-may-care characters possibly written in modern literature. And because of that, it's difficult for me to approach his psyche. I'm afraid of making him too soft or too mean. I don't think I've ever TRULY included him in one of my personal stories. The majority of my fics have a purely canon basis, where he and Johnny have died - however I remember having written him in the past (in a fic which I will not recommend to anyway, haha) and I fell into that place of creating him to be rough-yet-nicer-to-this-particular-character... and it's just not in his character.

Of course, the easy advice would be to say, "If you don't think you can master him, then don't bother trying or else you'll butcher him." But really, it's the exact opposite. You'll never master a character until you try and try and try again.

[zevie]

Sometimes I think that my biggest roadblock to writing Dallas is me just thinking about the fact that he's so complicated. Maybe sometimes he's just not. Whenever I try to figure out his motives it just keeps spinning into a more and more complex web of emotions and ideas and crazy painful backstory until at some point I'm just like: "No, f*ck it, he just felt like doing it." But, that could just be me being lazy and frustrated.

I totally agree, try again and again and again! Oh, man, everyone should write a bit about Dallas. I feel like it really doesn't matter if it's Mary-Sue honestly, he is such a great character, anyone who has the desire to dig into him, even the shallowest little bit, should do it. He's so difficult; heck, there's a separate stream just to discuss writing him! Anyone with the courage to look him out has got a bit o' my respect. Plus, it's crazy fun, even if he comes out OOC.

[zevie]

Holy hell, Artemis! That post is going up as my Dally guide-book.

"He apparently doesn't go to school, he already has an extensive police record and he has no support system outside of the gang, so his options in life are very limited. I think he's intelligent enough to realise this. "

That's heartbreaking.

There's always this feeling of hope with pretty much every one of the gang. But, what would Dallas have if he'd kept on living? What would he do as the gang grew up? Land back in jail?

Ponyboy makes a comment somewhere (I think at the rumble) about how Tim is one of those hoods that enjoy being a hood...I think he likens him to Dallas in this respect, but I can't remember. So, I guess at least a part of Dallas would be alright with his position as a greaser... I totally agree with him being smart and looking to the future, though, and if Dally's options are so limited I can definitely see that as being a reason to just give up on anything but living each day doing whatever the hell you want.

I know it's a Mary-Sue cliche, but, from the way S.E. CONSISTENTLY depicts prison life, and from modern day knowledge, and Dallas being in jail at such a young age, I think there's a good chance that he could have been abused pretty badly. I don't know...but, for almost every one of her other characters that goes to jail that comes up as an issue.

He just seems to have a shit time of everything.

I think one of my favourite depictions of Dallas was one where he was participating in a rodeo...it's one of the very few times that I've read a scene about Dallas being really happy and believed it.

I think I find Dallas even more depressing than Johnny.

[fairlane]

artemisrex I thought your observations on Dally were awesome. Also re the point about the police 'beating it out of him' I've always taken that point literally, simply because I think Dally would realise that if he appeared to give in too easily and 'nark' then the police would not believe him.

[zevie]

Question about Dally:

Pony says that he spent three years on the "wild side of New York." I assume this means that he left Tulsa for New York and came back - although he could have started somewhere else too (or even a not-so-wild part of New York). What do you guys usually write (or think) about this part of his life? At what age do you usually picture him being in New York? How and why did he go there?

[fairlane]

Well, of course it's pretty open to interpretation, but my own take on it when I wrote Dally (not that I've ever posted it lol) was that his parents moved around a lot and New York was just one of the places that they lived for a while, I also assumed the arrest at age ten to have happened in New York because of the way it's said in one sentence, again that is just one way to interpret it.

The ages I put him in New York is 10-13, but the phrase about being on the wild side makes it sound like he was older while he was there - say 12-15. I don't think he would have been younger than 10-13 anyway.

On the other hand, Ponyboy describes the gang as growing up together, which makes the scenario that Dally always lived in Tulsa except for those 3 years more likely.

[Tensleep]

Writing Dallas Winston is like walking a tightrope. If you make him look like he's too soft, you fall. If you make him look like someone who has no emotion, you fall. Balancing the two is a feat not many writers accomplish. He's a complex, deep character with great qualities so many just ignore and portray him as a jerk. Not that he isnt a jerk, but we all know he was nice to Steve's cousin when she was around and he must have some appeal to the girls. I just shake my head sometimes.

The Dally timeline...one of the reasons I avoid writing him!

This is basically the backstory I use for the Passin' Through story:

I have always had it in my head that the family originally comes from Missouri (Birth place of my dear Bill Smith) and Dally's Dad moved there with him in tow as a little kid after his wife left them. I never saw the dad, Jebb as I have dubbed him, as being patient at all, so I figure Dallas probably got sent off to live with his mother who ended up in New York. Of course, he landed in prison and was running wild, so his mom who had a new life probably shipped him back once he really started mucking things up in her new life. Prison she could deal with since he was out of her hair, but this is Dallas. He probably was getting drunk and fighting and all that. So she washed her hands of him and his father was less than amused with his return.

So Dallas to Tulsa at age 5
Dallas shipped off to his mother 8 to 9ish
Prison a few months at age 10
Wild side of New York 11 to about 13-14ish
Dallas back in Tulsa 13-14 years old

Anyways, my random rambling for tonight.

See ya in the funny papers!!!

Tens

[latch22]

Heh, by "beating it out of him," I just figured that he found whoever questioned him to be stupid, and the situation sort of funny, because he had led them to an answer that was not true, but yet he was intelligent enough to reveal it in a manner which implied that it was, as if it had simply "slipped," and was not deliberate. But that would make sense, I think... I love looking at this book in a new light. I don't do that enough anymore. Thanks, Artemis.

Dallas never really appealed to me. Well, he did, actually, but I never felt much pull towards his character, or I didn't after a little while. (I could never decide how I felt about him.) That's probably why I never much wrote him, and I'm anxious when I do. I'm not sure if I've actually gotten him in-character yet, but there's always time to try again.

But now I'm actually kind of fascinated by his character. That was all in the last few minutes, mind you--and all because of your posts, Artemis. You're making me itch to write again... You're giving me ideas, slowly pulling me back into The Outsiders... You devil, you.

I am so off-topic, I just realized.

*coughs; fidgets slightly* Okay, my biggest Dallas concerns? Making him appear interesting, is one, which shouldn't sound difficult, and I'm actually a little embarrassed by now. I think I'm seeing him in a different light. He always seemed interesting, but I wasn't sure how to put that across.

And how does he spend his days? I wonder about that. It's safe to assume that he does not attend school, and we know some of his habits, and his personality, so it's doubtful that he holds a steady job. So what the hell does he do?

You know, if anything, I think he has more emotion that most, as opposed to the cold, soulless, heartless, unfeeling being so often portrayed--he just doesn't *want* to have so much emotion, and he has a tight rein on them, and so you would not know it.

I also think that he would *have* to have a sense of humor. Seriously. Just a bit ironic, possibly acerbic. Not any knock-knock jokes for this guy...

And I kind of don't feel like thinking anymore--my head is throbbing in protest at all the cerebral stimulation occurring right now on a lack of sleep--so I'm out.

Cheers!

[zevie]

Hahaha, yeah, that's sexy.

I'm not even kidding. (Mars, you know I love it.)

I'm re-reading this book for the fourteen-millionth time (I think I've memorised the first chapter). I just got to the part where Cherry and Dally do their thing, and one thing that always bugged me was wondering how Dallas can talk dirty to himself. This is one of those times that I don't want to stick in anything anachronistic...the movie had a really funny example, but is that really how tame he was?

[maxiekat]

It's funny how much has changed. I've flipped through Young Adult novels that are written today and they're full of blantant adult references and graphic language. It's so different from when I was a kid. Back then, we had to sneak a book like Go Ask Alice so our parents wouldn't find it and now it's required reading in school.

I always thought it would be interesting if a magaizine or newspaper covered the 40th anniversary of The Outsiders by comparing and contrasting the books of the 60's vs. the teen books of today.

[zevie]

The Star Runner also has more risque things literally written in. I re-read it later and my jaw hit the floor several times.

[EmilineHarris]

After reading Artemis' "Dally guide book" post (hehe), something I heard in one of the many education classes that I have taken over the past year came to mind. In a course dedicated to teaching students with varying abilities, we learned a lot about how to incorporate students with physical handicaps, learning disabilities, or things like ADD and ADHD... but we also touched upon some documented emotional disorders that I've never heard of before:

Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD): causes a pattern of negativistic, hostile, disobedient, and defiant behaviors. Students' symptoms may include loss of temper, arguments with adults, irritability, vindictiveness, swearing and using obscenities, blaming others for mistakes and misbehavior, and low self-esteem. These symptoms may be exacerbated if the students believe that they have no control over an important life situation. This disorder may progress to become Conduct Disorder.

Conduct Disorder: consists of a persistent pattern of antisocial behavior that significantly interferes with others' rights or with schools' and communities' behavioral expectations. The American Psychiatric Association has identified four categories of conduct disorders: (1) aggressive conduct resulting in physical harm to people or animals, (2) property destruction, (3) deceitfulness or theft, and (4) serious rule violations such as truancy and running away. Students who exhibit conduct disorders usually have little empathy for others. Their self esteem is low or overly inflated. Approximately 50% of all teenagers with oppositional defiant disorder or conduct disorder also have ADHD. Other psychosocial factors are also linked to conduct disorders, including being abused as a child, living in neighborhoods characterized by poverty, and experiencing conflictual relationships with adults.

After reading those definitions, Dally just automatically pops into my head. Could it be that all of his pissy attitude and lack of impulse control stems from some real, mental imbalance?

I mean, I could totally see him having ADHD and not being able to just sit around in class, or anywhere else for that matter, and then having all that energy filter into a conduct disorder. Of course he would get bored and turn to crime for excitement and entertainment. Seeing a "scientific basis," so to speak for his actions and attitudes really opens something up and makes me wonder (maybe that is just the scientist in me). It almost makes his case/story that much more depressing... He really could have been a good kid given the chance and opportunity (and a positive role model of some sort), but it just wasn't meant to be.

Whether an emotional disorder is the root of his behavioral problems or not, I think it's little things like this that add up to make Dally such an interesting character!