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Post by missmouse on Jul 2, 2009 22:29:11 GMT -5
If this is in the wrong spot, please move it Alright, so there's been a lot of complaining about MarySues going on- and a lot of Mary Sues themselves happening. And I see why- they're boring, stereotypical, and unrealistic. But are they that bad? Sure, it's annoying to skip past them- but annoyance is about all the feeling I have about them. People write fanfiction for different reasons. Some of us like to improve our writing, some of us write for fun, some of us write so that we can see the characters do things that didn't happen in the novel. So say someone is writing just for kicks, and they write a MarySue- is that really that bad? Does a person deserve loads of flames or general negativity just because they don't have the same view on fanfiction as others? They're enjoying themselves, so why can't we let them? Does this make any sense or is this just the rambling of an off-beat mind?
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cooroo
Teeny Bopper
All we hear is Radio Gaga...
Posts: 171
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Post by cooroo on Jul 3, 2009 13:06:45 GMT -5
Nobody ever deserves flames. Ever. No matter how bad their stories are.
However, the rest of the issue isn't quite so clear cut. I think that a lot of times Mary Sues are written by young authors who, like you said, are just having fun. The problem is that they also think their stories are the best thing ever and if anybody criticises them, even in a constructive manner, they instantly go on the offensive and start attacking the reviewer (generalization here, please stick with me). That's when they get really obnoxious. You can't expect to get all-good reviews on a story, and I guess you go the "If you don't say something nice..." route, but then why put your stories on the internet?
It is a bit of a hard issue, because you don't want somebody to get discouraged from writing, but you do want them to become better writers. At least, I do, because I'm figuring anyone who writes will probably want to get published eventually (at least, I do), and the best way to getting published is writing the best they can. Or, even if publishing isn't the way they want to go, I do want them to be able to write as best they can, even if it's just to avoid harsh criticism in the future.
Did any of that make sense? It did to me, and I'd like to see what everybody else thinks of this.
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Post by Nittanylizard on Jul 3, 2009 19:11:12 GMT -5
I agree about the no flames and negativity thing. I know it can be frustrating for readers to come across story after story that have the same problems, but a really negative review can be devastating to a writer who is just starting out and already doesn't have much confidence. I think a lot of times, the confidence they're trying to show when they get angry about a bad review is just a defensive reaction.
As far as Mary Sue characters, one of the issues is that it can be subjective, trying to pinpoint exactly what a Mary Sue is. Also, like you said, some writers are just trying to have some fun.
On the other hand, telling somebody "your character is a Mary Sue" is just a different way of telling them that their characterization is poor and their character is unrealistic and/or unlikable.
I've seen some writers say that they know they are writing a Mary Sue and they're okay with it, but I think they are missing the gist of it. The Mary Sue part isn't about the situation the character is in; it's about the writing and characterization. So it's entirely possible to write a story about a girl who is connected to the gang in some way without her being a Mary Sue. Saying you're okay with writing a Mary Sue is pretty much equivalent to saying that you're okay with not having your grammar or spelling fixed when you post a story.
So to answer the question, I don't get upset when somebody writes a Mary Sue, partly because writing is a skill that needs to be developed, and characterization is one of the harder things to get a handle on. Sometimes they accept the help that's offered, and sometimes they're not ready for it. But regardless, I don't think it's necessary to lay into somebody who is at a different rung in their writing ladder than you are.
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Post by Maggie Writersblock on Jul 4, 2009 13:03:20 GMT -5
I think Mary-Sue isn't that bad if she's kind of perfect, or maybe a little mouthy, but if she is crazy perfect and can kick 200 Socs butts at once with her angelic, golden locks willowing in the breeze. I think that annoys me.
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Post by cassasaur on Jul 5, 2009 6:01:47 GMT -5
Alright, here's the thing. I'm 13. I'm a newbie. My first fic was awful. I've been there. The first time you post something, it can be terrifying. So, people probably post Mery-Sues to fit in with the older members. My first fic was like that, and it was CRAP. I think whatcoloristhesky reviewed it first. I can remember waiting for the first reviews...
Long story short, it's probably first-time writers doing these things.
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Post by Nittanylizard on Jul 7, 2009 18:57:02 GMT -5
That's a really good insight, cassasaur, that somebody would write a story similar to what's already out there so they fit in better. And yes, it is definitely terrifying to post a story, whether it's your first or your twenty-first ;D.
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Post by Keira on Jul 17, 2009 1:06:54 GMT -5
Depending on my mood, I don't mind "well-written" Mary-Sues. I don't go out of my way to read them, but if I stumble upon one and the story is well-written, and the only real problem is that the character is a little cliche, I can be okay with it. You can't be too picky, especially on ffn, lol.
I definitely agree with Liz that it's a writing-skill that still needs to be developed, but if we're going to completely disregard Mary-Sue's as a bad job, that would mean we should also completely disregard ANY story that has a slightly OOC character, you know? And we ALL know that there are fantastic stories out there with our boys that are somewhat OOC and we're okay with it. Even if we "shouldn't" be.
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